New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

First topic message reminder :

The actual tribe system is similar to a militar one, where the tribes look to be "armies". We have:

Tribe leader - the commander
Lieutenant - second in command

The other ranks are generally the "militar units".
...

I think this kind of system is outdated. We have several users that they have characters with their unique personalities. So the tribe leader can't command anymore because it would be a tyrant. We have kingdoms that can't be administrated with the power only in the hands of one person. It looks to be a dictatorship system and the majority of people will be certainly upsed by that.

I think the tribe leader system can be improved with the following changes.

1. We have male and female for every tribe. So the leadership isn't anymore in the hand of one dragon, but two dragons. There's a male exponent and a female exponent.

2. We don't have a Liutenant anymore. The leaders will be supported by several Advisors. There's no limit of Advisors a tribe can have. Advisors have the important role to support the leaders, listening tribe members and understand the needs of the tribe.

To do a example. The SeaWing could have
1. Korramyr - Male Leader
2. ShiningWater - Female Leader
3. Atlantis - Advisor
4. Other advisor
5. Other advisor
...

A more interested project would be to split the kingdoms in feuds. There're Duke/Dukess that rule over a territory and they support the leaders. However this kind of project is very complicated to do for now. So we have simply Advisors to make it easier and the userbase will understand better their role. Advisors will make the life certainly easier to tribe leaders.

Also, I suggest to remove the semi-god state of tribe leaders. I think it's very important that tribe leaders can be challenged (or replaced) for the throne. This will give equality to all the dragons and prevent a leader to have a role of tyrant. However challenging a tribe leader isn't something that can be done carefree. There must be good reasons behind that.

For example, Volcanis can challenge ShadowFire and try to conquer the throne. However, the other FireWings would prefer to have ShadowFire as their leader. So Volcanis can't actually challenge the leader because he isn't supported by tribe members.

Another example: Atlantis can challenge Korramyr for the throne. They could be both two good male leaders and the SeaWings will split into two sides. So a fight will decide who is the new ruler. However Atlantis would never challenge Korramyr because he knows Korramyr is a good leader.

Third example: The majority of Advisors and tribe members agree a tribe leader needs to be changed. So the actual tribe leader will simply step down and a new one will be choosen.

To all tribe leaders: don't be scared to lose your "God" powers. If you're really a good and wise leader, you won't lose your rank because your character fits the role very well. A tribe leader should be choosen for the ability to listen and take care of tribe members, not for the strenght. As I have said at the start of this topic, the military system can't really work. There're emotions and feelings involved during a roleplay. People need to openly manifest the personalities of their characters without the fear that a tribe leader can punish the character because the leader has god powers.

Also, Dragon Gods should simply be creators. I have seen they can influence the events in Pyyria and take decision for others.

I suggest: Gods characters should be exclusively used to give suggestions. Or else Gods look as dictactors if they can do whatever they want, abusing their God-state.

I'm not accusing anyone. I know nobody is using its character to act as a tyrant. You're all very awesome people and you'll always do your best. I'm simply saying the actual system looks to be dictatorial, though you don't have the intention to be dictactors. We need more equality in the forum.

Trinyah wrote:And the idea with bumping down the semi god to regular dragon, Phan? o3o

Don't misunderstanding me with the regular dragon

A tribe leader, to be challenged, there must be very good and reasonable conditions. So tribe leaders will keep their position shielded.

Advisors a number of two could be fine. Not sure how many. We can start with two.

Ok, this is double post, but I think there's a thing to change.

The concept of dragon kingdom still leaves the power in the hand of one person. if we have a King, his mate is going to be Queen. Or viceversa. King and Queen, as the names suggest, have a mate-bond.

The meaning of having a King and Queen should be to have a male exponent and female exponent of a tribe for gender equality.

So what about to remove the King and Queen ranks, and simply leave Leader?

Every tribe can have two leaders, one male and one female. They're simply two leaders, but they don't have a mate-bond.

For example, SeaWings we could have

SeaWing Male Leader: Atlantis
SeaWing Female Leader: ShiningWater
SeaWing Advisor: NA
SeaWing Advisor: NA

This will definitely remove the dictactoship system where the power is in the hand of one person.

I don't know if this is too late but...Having a Male Leader and a Female Leader as a rank just sounds weird, maybe even a bit gross. I know we are dragons and saying Male or Female isn't a bad a idea though it could at least sound more formal. Perhaps dragoness for Fems or whatever...I honestly prefer Queen and King as Titles even though we live in Tribes. So what that we live in Tribes, this is a website for unique idea's. I know that out there, people don't like that there are dictatorships or knowing that we have Kingdoms when we are Tribes. Dragons are often stereotyped as to hiding stashes of gold and we having Kingdoms with Queens and Kings will still relate to human Kingdoms and Kings.
The thought of having both a Queen and a King for the "Tribes" isn't a dumb idea. It would at least keep from dictatorships but I always saw it Queen/King as another term for Leader. If anything, "Leader" is more of a dictatorship term. Adding the "Male" and "Female" into Leader will make it seem as if there would be two dictators, and the words themselves will sound awkward.
Especially when you talk to someone, "Hey Kokoro! I keep forgetting, what rank are you?" ..... "Oh well...I'm the SkyWing Female Leader..."
Look, I just cant stress enough of how weird that sounds. And it is just too long of a title (to me at least) and it just....Ughh... Instead of changing King and Queens to Male and Fem Leaders just to fit the Tribe way of the Dragons and to keep from having Kingdoms, we can just change the word Tribe into something else. Like Faction, Association, Union, Federation, or something else!
I don't know if anyone here has read the book Warriors By Erin Hunter but in the books, there is one Leader for a whole Tribe. That may sound like a dictatorship, but do you think it mattered? We are RPing as animal creatures, and do you really think they know better of what a dictatorship is? I know many people love making their character smart but how come in ways like these where it is almost impossible for them to realize this. I understand we are humans and we may know things our character might not but they know if we just decide that if I know this, they can too!
Anyway, the point is we shouldn't change King/Queen titles to Male and Female Leaders. No offence Atlas, but I think its just a lousy idea. However, having two dragons as Queen and King sounds alright and we can keep the Kingdoms but change the title "Tribe" to something else. OR we can keep this as a unique Roleplaying for Dragons Website and Keep Tribes, along with Kingdoms, Queens and Kings.
I hope others can understand what I believe and I didn't want to make this as a fight. If you disagree with my thoughts then can you at least try to reason why.

Kokoro wrote:I don't know if this is too late but...Having a Male Leader and a Female Leader as a rank just sounds weird, maybe even a bit gross. I know we are dragons and saying Male or Female isn't a bad a idea though it could at least sound more formal. Perhaps dragoness for Fems or whatever...I honestly prefer Queen and King as Titles even though we live in Tribes. So what that we live in Tribes, this is a website for unique idea's. I know that out there, people don't like that there are dictatorships or knowing that we have Kingdoms when we are Tribes. Dragons are often stereotyped as to hiding stashes of gold and we having Kingdoms with Queens and Kings will still relate to human Kingdoms and Kings.
The thought of having both a Queen and a King for the "Tribes" isn't a dumb idea. It would at least keep from dictatorships but I always saw it Queen/King as another term for Leader. If anything, "Leader" is more of a dictatorship term. Adding the "Male" and "Female" into Leader will make it seem as if there would be two dictators, and the words themselves will sound awkward.
Especially when you talk to someone, "Hey Kokoro! I keep forgetting, what rank are you?" ..... "Oh well...I'm the SkyWing Female Leader..."
Look, I just cant stress enough of how weird that sounds. And it is just too long of a title (to me at least) and it just....Ughh... Instead of changing King and Queens to Male and Fem Leaders just to fit the Tribe way of the Dragons and to keep from having Kingdoms, we can just change the word Tribe into something else. Like Faction, Association, Union, Federation, or something else!
I don't know if anyone here has read the book Warriors By Erin Hunter but in the books, there is one Leader for a whole Tribe. That may sound like a dictatorship, but do you think it mattered? We are RPing as animal creatures, and do you really think they know better of what a dictatorship is? I know many people love making their character smart but how come in ways like these where it is almost impossible for them to realize this. I understand we are humans and we may know things our character might not but they know if we just decide that if I know this, they can too!
Anyway, the point is we shouldn't change King/Queen titles to Male and Female Leaders. No offence Atlas, but I think its just a lousy idea. However, having two dragons as Queen and King sounds alright and we can keep the Kingdoms but change the title "Tribe" to something else. OR we can keep this as a unique Roleplaying for Dragons Website and Keep Tribes, along with Kingdoms, Queens and Kings.
I hope others can understand what I believe and I didn't want to make this as a fight. If you disagree with my thoughts then can you at least try to reason why.

King and Queen make sense. However, as I have said in the previous post, King and Queen have a specific meaning. If there's a King, the King is the leader. The Queen is going to be his mate. So the leader is still one, and we're again stuck with the problem of the dictactorship that will be shared between two.

In theory, there was already a Queen/King system. ShiningWater was the Queen for example, but the Leader was Korramyr.

My idea wasn't to introduce Kings and Queens, but an exponent for gender. So tribes have two leaders. One would say two dictactors, but it's a step away from the dictactorship system

Having two leaders, one for gender, will help to avoid cases of dictactorships. Two elements can exercise their power and collaborate each other.

"Male Leader" and "Female Leader" sound odd. What about to simply have "leaders?". A male and a female. Or do you have any names in mind?

Anyway it's my bad. I have talked about King and Queen, but I should have talked about. "Male leader" and "female leader".

Any solution we would find, it's always very important that tribe members should be always consulted first before the leaders take decisions for the forum or big event.

Well, instead of having a King and him with his just Queen, I think it would be interesting to see if both of them be in charge. There wouldnt be a dictatorship but a Constitutional Monarchy.

I know there could only be one Group Moderator but whoever was there first can stay that Moderator. It will only be in RP's that would matter if there were Kings and Queens, this is a roleplaying site...

Anyway, no I dont have a suggestion for a different title for the leaders but I still dont agree with the "Leaders" part. I know it has been Leader in the past instead of Queen/King, but perhaps Phantom forgot that with every King there should be a Queen.

So.

Advisors? Sure. Why not

As for the idea of male leader and female leader, that does sound kinda wierd. Have you read the Heroes of Olympus? Camp Jupitor has two praetors, one male and one female. But Reyna isn't the "female praetor". She's just the praetor. Also, the two praetors weren't always couples, but they often were because they had to work together so often.

So yeah, I think we should cut of male or female and just have the rank be "leader".

Phantom is in vacation now, so we don't know exactly. Basically we have two ideas:

1. King/Queen system (Kingdom system)
There's a leader (King or Queen) for every dragon pack. Dragon tribes become kingdoms.

2. Male Leader and Female Leader
Two elements of different gender collaborate each other to lead the tribe. Tribes keep their original status.

I believe option two is the best to avoid cases of dictactorship. There will be simply equality gender in the rank system. Animal packs work with a alpha male and alpha female afterall.

Atlantis wrote:Phantom is in vacation now, so we don't know exactly. Basically we have two ideas:

1. King/Queen system (Kingdom system)
There's a leader (King or Queen) for every dragon pack. Dragon tribes become kingdoms.

2. Male Leader and Female Leader
Two elements of different gender collaborate each other to lead the tribe. Tribes keep their original status.

I believe option two is the best to avoid cases of dictactorship. There will be simply equality gender in the rank system. Animal packs work with a alpha male and alpha female afterall.

I agree with the second option
King and queens sounds good yeah but it would not work well
first because a king/queen must be a very good at this, quite active and listen to the other dragons of its tribe
second because a mate would be automatically a king/queen too, and may not fix the role well or the users haven't votet it
and because the king/queen could not choose a mate so it will be the only leader who takes the decisions.
This closes some possibility to the other users and may not everyone can agree,
but in the other way, with the leaders system, there are more variables

so the Leader idea sounds better, because a king is also a leader, so i don't see why we can't change the title in leader, this one will guide the tribe, so the male/female leader can have a mate beside the role they have
the two leader can talk and help each other to take decisions and to listen and help the tribe, also they can have a mate that is not automatically a leader, but this doesn't mean it would value less
also it make possible for a tribe leader to have a mate that maybe comes from another tribe, so one can roleplay in a more free and controlled way with this sistem.

plus i still support the idea to insert the title of officer and of adviser.

No Atlas, that's not what I thought. For Queens and Kings, there would be both for each Kingdom/Tribe. It will be a Constitutional Monarchy. Both will be leaders/in charge and there will be no dictatorship.
Dragon tribes can either be called Tribes and have those Kingdoms within it, or the whole entirety of the title Tribe can be changed into some other word like a faction or such.

~Sleenia, the first option doesnt sound good because Atlas wrote it down all wrong of what I had in mind.

No, I said it sounds good but to me it's better the second option,
and, maybe one whant to mate another, but can't because is from another tribe, or dont' want to be king, or don't fix the role well etc

we can change the meaning of this title, but since the king is also a leader
the word leader it's the best option we have

The Constitutional Monarch would force a King and Queen to be mates. So a leader can't mate a dragon from another tribe.

So instead of having King and Queen names, we'll simply have leaders.

Perhaps Sleenia and Atlantis, but I just dont like the plain word of Leader. Especially Female and Male Leader. Even if it were to be changed to something else, I prefer Queen since it sounds more formal.
I practically joined this site because it was more unique than other sites I have seen. Changing it to Leader will make it not as unique...

I understand your point, Kokoro.

We could keep the titles of King and Queen because the names are beatiful. However characters aren't necessarily bonded to a mate relationship. Would that work?

Yes, that would be fine.
I got the relationship between the Queen and King from someone else as they thought it would have made more sense. I just tried to support the idea...
But what ever, I suppose...

Kokoro wrote:Yes, that would be fine.
I got the relationship between the Queen and King from someone else as they thought it would have made more sense. I just tried to support the idea...
But what ever, I suppose...

The point is that King and Queen would suggest a mate relationship. It should be specified that King and Queen are only formal names. I agree that King or Queen sound much better than Leader.

Idea Vs Idea!

DOCTOR VS DENTIST

GODZILLA VS RODAN!!!!!!!!!!!!

:3

Equality for the win!

@Kokoro: you have joined this site because it was unique. However from the description of the ranks is the worst dictactorship you would ever see in a forum

King/Queen: The dragon who rules their tribe.Their personality is the same as their Tribe's and describes how his/her Tribemates treat others. The word of the King/Queen is law, and all other Tribe dragons must obey them. They are responsible for the whole Tribe, calling Tribe meetings, appointing dragons to new ranks, and making the toughest decisions.

Lieutenant: A dragon who is second in command to the King/Queen aiding him/her in their tasks and replacing them immediately after their death or retirement. Also, when the leader is ill or unable to perform their duties, the Lieutenant will take the tribe leader's place until they recover, and they will take their place at Gatherings if the tribe leader is absent and cannot attend.

Majority of the leaders (even with the kingdom system) were indeed taking decisions for themselves, though there isn't the intention.

New descriptions that I suggest.

Tribe Leaders: a tribe has always two leaders, one for gender. A male exponent and female exponent. They're formally called King and Queen to distinguish gender difference, but they aren't necessarily bonded to a mate relationship. They collaborate each other to guide the tribe and understand the necessities and demands of tribe members. Leaders are tribe representatives and their word reflects the collective opinion of tribe members. They call councils when it comes to take crucial decisions for the tribe. Leaders can be challenged when another member, usually an Advisor, would prove to deserve the rank better than the actual leader.

Tribe Advisor: advisors are the closest member to the leaders. Their task is to aid tribe leaders in every aspect of the tribe's administration. Advisors work as a bridge between leaders and members, helping the two sides to communicate and exchange informations with precision and impartiality. An advisor that shows favoritisms or plan against a tribe leader would be permanently downgraded. The advisors are carefully chosen by the leaders after a consultation with tribe members. Advisors can be subjected to monthly rotation in favour of different members. There's a number of two advisors for tribe.

---

I think Advisors can be changed periodically (not necessarily) to prevent them from having too much power and give a chance to other members to be high in the ranks.

Remember that when I talk about communication and stuff, it must be done openly in the forums. It's ok to use the chatbox or private messages to accelerate times. However, once a decision is taken, it must be showed to all the tribe members for evaluation. It can be done through a roleplay or a simple tribe announcement.

You know i don't want to get to involved in this controversy but i have been hearing around and witnessing that not too many people are agreeing with your movement of change, Atlantis. And like mine did, it was better to have some sort of equal vote. I personally feel we should stay the same, we're alot more simpler with the ranking system currently. God's should be lower in power yes. Though what i've been hearing and witnessing is that this topic may be getting approved the unfair way. Now, i'm not accusing anyone but i understand phantom's the owner/high admin here, but just because she approves doesn't neccessarily mean it has to be directly enforced when everyone else does not approve.

Like you speak on "Equality" and the ranking system being a "dictatorship" I see that by this being approved so rashly, you practically just went and through your entire argument out the window, Atlantis. I Feel that even though Phantom is awesome, and you have a good view; we should be more "Equal" as you say and have a vote on it, opposed to having phantom enforce it just like that. Fairness and Equality is what keeps our members. Like i said i'm not directly making "Assumptions" or "Accusations" i'm merely...Representing a few members who have complained over you getting your way and not having the time to take into consideration of what others think.

Like i said, When phantom gets back from her camp. Take it into consideration and have some vote. No leader should have so much power as you practically argued over. And i don't personally want to debate this much~ Just wanted to make that clear.

but just because she approves doesn't neccessarily mean it has to be directly enforced when everyone else does not approve.

you are gettin it wrong shao, Atlantis opened this topic expecially to talk to everyone and see the views of others, instead of using the chat and take decision when nobody elese know anything about.

i'm merely...Representing a few members who have complained over you

This sounds totally unfair
who? when? in the chat? so no one can see? and why they don't talk by itself and come here? why do not talk openly? he's not taking decisions like a tyrant for the others, he is having differents ideas and he's showing them to rest of us, that's what I see
I'm not accusing anyone too, but we are responsable of our actions ad of whsat we say or do, expecially if someone is involved and/or do not know anything about what is happening behind him
Each one should take its responsability and act in a fair way.

Shao Nevikaar wrote:You know i don't want to get to involved in this controversy but i have been hearing around and witnessing that not too many people are agreeing with your movement of change, Atlantis. And like mine did, it was better to have some sort of equal vote. I personally feel we should stay the same, we're alot more simpler with the ranking system currently. God's should be lower in power yes. Though what i've been hearing and witnessing is that this topic may be getting approved the unfair way. Now, i'm not accusing anyone but i understand phantom's the owner/high admin here, but just because she approves doesn't neccessarily mean it has to be directly enforced when everyone else does not approve.
Like you speak on "Equality" and the ranking system being a "dictatorship" I see that by this being approved so rashly, you practically just went and through your entire argument out the window, Atlantis. I Feel that even though Phantom is awesome, and you have a good view; we should be more "Equal" as you say and have a vote on it, opposed to having phantom enforce it just like that. Fairness and Equality is what keeps our members. Like i said i'm not directly making "Assumptions" or "Accusations" i'm merely...Representing a few members who have complained over you getting your way and not having the time to take into consideration of what others think.

I wonder, who are these people you're representing? We need to openly discuss about things. Why haven't you told me the names? Why haven't you told these people to post here? I'm assuming you have abused the chatbox to speak with others against me. Remember you're a moderator. A moderator that has asked Phantom to have the title without doing a pool or consulting the userbase. It's all happened in the chatbox. Do you think is that fair, for example? We're looking for fairness and equality... Decisions like to choose a new moderator or admin should be done through a pool, not in the chatbox. You're alluring that I'm pushing towards a direction when you you have done something worse.

Nothing has been decided and everything can be subjected to changes. This topic simply wanted to adress a lack and offer some suggestions. We have Kings and Queens, but never their counterparts. There should be always a male exponent and female exponent. This is the fair and correct way and I don't believe we need a votation for that.

About Advisors, we can have a votation about that if you would like once Phantom is back.

"Phantom! We need your decision!!"

Sorry. Anyways, Shao, I don't think Atlantis is getting his way. He's expressing better ideas for the forum to make it better. I, myself, think that two leaders, a queen and a king, is much better than one leader or two kings or two queens. The king and queen can help each other decide, and together, will make a better decision than one person. About advisors, I think it is better than lieutenant also. If the king or queen needs help deciding, they can ask the advisors for their decisions and the four of them will make a much better rule. Overall, I agree with Phantom; Atlas does create good ideas.

Shyann wrote:"Phantom! We need your decision!!"

Sorry. Anyways, Shao, I don't think Atlantis is getting his way. He's expressing better ideas for the forum to make it better. I, myself, think that two leaders, a queen and a king, is much better than one leader or two kings or two queens. The king and queen can help each other decide, and together, will make a better decision than one person. About advisors, I think it is better than lieutenant also. If the king or queen needs help deciding, they can ask the advisors for their decisions and the four of them will make a much better rule. Overall, I agree with Phantom; Atlas does create good ideas.

Exactly, it's the natural way to have a King AND Queen, the fairness and equality we're looking.

We would keep the original names since Kokoro was simply arguing that she didn't like to be "Leader".

Anyway I invite these "few people" mentioned by Shao to post here and discuss... It's always preferable to openly post ideas and thoughts in the forums instead of using the chatbox. Or else we can't understand each other.

I invite everyone to not use the chatbox to discuss about ideas, stuff or problems. Post or open new topics in the forum. We have a section Ideas for a reason.

The chatbox is supposed to have fun and speak. It should be used that way.

Seems good, I like how I never did anything in he his thread XD

You know, i'm done with the topic. You clearly offended me by rubbing stuff in my face and accusing me of things that happened then. This shouldn't get approved because it messes the whole system up. And since you found it reasonable to shove that topic in my face, your a damned hypocrite and a traitor. That treaty we had is over, welcome to my enemies Atlantis. ~Shao


[[btw, no need replying to this, i'm not gonna check ]